Monday, June 2, 2008

Agree or Disagree?

You may disagree (or you may not!); but personally, I agree with every word Regan Lee says here.


cryptidsrus said...

Good thread...

I thought PERSONALLY the part where they attached the camera-collar to the hog was interesting (and kinda fun).

Aside from the that, the episode was mostly boring. I think they are running out of ideas.

What is really out there is the fact that they are going to do a show about searching for Lizzie Borden's ghost!!!
Ghost Hunting on MonsterQuest???

Unlike Regan, I'm not mad at the people who talk about "killing" the hog. They live in a different world than she does.
Although personally I don't hunt, I have no problem with hunting under certain circumstances.

Those that do it for food and use every part of the animal, fine. Those that do it so they can feel better about the size of their wee-wees and brag about how they are "masters of the world," er, no way.

Probably the most odious example of that I read about on Fortean Times---maybe you know about it---there was a report in there about the resurgence in the Highlands of sightings of White Stags---which, of course, are said to be magical and messengers of wondrous happennings in Celtic and Caledonian folklore. Well, one of the sighted stags was found tied to a tree with its head chopped off---obviously the work of poachers.
Oh, Lord.
The article stated they are trying to keep the locations of other sightings secret so hunters do not try again.

The irony of this is, of course that killing a white stag is considered bad luck to those that perpetrate it. I don't think these poachers are worthy of the death penalty but I CERTAINLY am not going to shed a tear if they have bad luck a thousandfold for their

Native Americans hunted Bison but they also respected and worshipped the animal. They also tended to thank the beast after they killed it for giving up its life so they could recive nourishment. They took what was needed, no more, no less.
Different relationship now.

Hopefully Scottish and English authorities will step in and crack down on this.

So those hunters in the program I am not really angry about. Wanton disrepect for a one-of-a-kind wonder, I do, Nick.

Regan, as always, says what she means and means what she says.
Good show.

Nick Redfern said...


I agree: No one who eats meat can complain about people who hunt specifically and only for food.

They would be hypocritical to do so (although it has to be said that slaughter houses - for anyone who has ever seen one, and I have - are terrible places, where truly nightmarish things go on. There's little chance of the animals having a peaceful farewell).

Like you, however, I find the whole concept of "Son, kill this animal and you will be a big man"-attitude to be tragic, crazy, macho-bullshit, swaggering nonsense.

If someone is gonna hunt a deer for sport, they should at least strap a gun to its head first so it has a chance to fire back and make it an even fight!

Okay, it's not gonna happen literally, but you get the picture!

cryptidsrus said...

Yes, I do, Nick...

Funny, funny what you said.

Yards said...

I agree.
Personally, I DON'T eat meat, so I guess I can complain about hunting without being hyptocritical. :D
(Actually, I eat seafood, but never birds or mammals.)
I really don't have a problem with hunting for food, as long as it doesn't go to waste (I'm a vegetarian, but not a psycho--I couldn't care less what y'all eat ;) ) I greatly dislike hunting for sport, or to cut an animal's head off and hang it on your wall. I just don't see any good in going out and killing things just to get off on it...kind of scares me, actually, the way little kids who cut open live toads or people who swerve to hit animals in the road scare me. I didn't see the show, and now I'm kind of glad...although anomalies like a giant hog interest me, running out to kill it for fame and glory instead of scientific gain--like what could happen if someone ever shoots a Bigfoot, say--does NOT interest me.
(Not that I want Bigfoot to be used as target practice...just making a point: if anyone was ever to kill a Bigfoot or come upon a dead one, I hope they call some people in the know and get it in the science books instead of cutting its head off and putting it on their wall.)
Anyway, thanks for directing us to that good post, Nick.
Since I didn't see the show, did they say whether or not the hogs were wild or escaped food "super" hogs jacked up on protein?

Nick Redfern said...

Many thanks - good to get your input.

Yards said...

Glad to give it, Nick.

AWT said...

Glad that we're having this dialogue, The main problem that I had with the episode was how little cryptozoological substance was actually in it. At least one redeeming quality was that it provoked a reaction to "canned" hunts or trophy hunting under very similar circumstances, i.e., shooting a captive exotic, or very recently released domestic animal.

Aside from the moral/sportsmanship argument, which is admittedly subjective and dependent heavily on socio-cultural factors, what CAN'T be debated is the very negative effect that feral animals have on ecosystems where these species did not evolve. As such, the species in question have no natural predators. Nor did their prey/food items in these circumstances co-evolve with the hogs, thus potentially minimizing the hogs' predation and/or compensating for mortality due to the introduced predators. As such, the hogs' numbers go unchecked, and they become very destructive in their feeding habits. The hogs compete with native species for food, as well.

The hunters often contend that they shoot the "wild" hogs to control their numbers- a good thing, of course, on the surface. But what complicates the issue is that in many areas, unethical hunters or landowners continue to release feral hogs into the wild- to promote their being hunted! (Given the propensity of free-ranging hogs to escape their enclosures, it seems like a moot point to distinguish here between accidental and deliberate releases.) Hogs are prolific breeders and may actually increase the number of piglets per litter in response to hunting intensity. Thus, the notion of "kill hogs for sport because we're their only predators" has become something of a self-fulfilling prophecy- to the detriment of native biodiversity and the "natural" environment.

I really wish that the episode had revealed this fact. Of course, then the hunters interviewed might not have been very cooperative!

Nick Redfern said...


Cheers - good comment.

I can see the logic in controlling numbers. I suppose from my own perspective, the crux of it is the issue of people taking pleasure in killing animals - for whatever reason.

If someone kills an animal for food, I have no problem with that, as animals hunt other animals for food anyway.

And if number-control issues are important, I can see that.

What I can't understand, however, is the issue of taking pleasure in any of the above and the "Alriiiiight!" factor that rears its ugly head when an animal is killed. the high-five-ing attitude, and the sickening thing of fathers saying to sons: "You killed that deer - now you're a man!"

As if killing a harmless deer ever made anyone a man.


People can say things like "Oh well, you don't understand Nick, because you're English and this is an American cultural thing."

True enough. But anyone - from anywhere in the world no matter their culture - should realize that killing an animal with a big goofy grin on a person's face is very disturbing and wrong - no matter what the reason.

In my view, at least!

Yards said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gummerfan said...

I'll steer clear of the whole anti vs pro-hunting debate.
I will say I'm disappointed that MonsterQuest devoted an epsode to this subject. Hogs, whether wild or pen raised, regular or "giant economy" sized, are a known species, and unless there's evidence to the contrary,(which so far there isn't) have no place in cryptozoology.
(but wild boar is mighty tasty, especially if slow-smoked!)

Nick Redfern said...

Yeah, they may look monstrous, but monsters they ain't!

cryptidsrus said...

Jeez, looks like Regan hit a nerve here, Nick!!!

I do agree with Gummerfan. If you think about it, Giant Hogs are known, not unknown, species...

Like I said, they are running out of ideas.

R. Lee said...

Thanks Nick for the plug and positive comments.

For the record, I'm not against hunting for food, etc. I am against canned hunts, big game hunting or trophy hunting. And the whole aura, or mind set, that killin' something just because you can, like it's a sport... disgusts me. That's my opinion. I live in Oregon where hunters abound, believe you me. Reasons vary from getting the yearly supply of meat, to a blood lust I really just don't understand.

Regarding Monster Quest, a show I enjoy, the hog episode was distasteful for the reasons I stated, but I agree that the program didnt seem particularly "crypto" though they tried. Kind of.